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Lu -



Quote:

Taiwan people's zh, ch, sh are no different from Beijing people's zh, ch, sh in Mandarin.

I think the difference is huge. But that might just be me.

As to different Mandarin accents in Taiwan, I have the impression that this depends more on
education level (and direction, Chinese teachers tend to speak impeccable Mandarin, with all the
zhchsh and -n/-ng endings), whether someone's parents speak standard Mandarin or heavily accented
Mandarin or Taiwanese, and other such factors, than on what place in the country someone is from.
Taiwan hasn't been speaking Mandarin for very long yet, there has not really been time for local
accents to develop.

Now for Taiwanese the situation is different, that varies according to where you are. Taizhong
Taiwanese is a bit different from Tainan Taiwanese, which in turn is a bit different from Taipei
Taiwanese. But I don't think they would ever have trouble understanding each other.



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cdn_in_bj -



Quote:

IMO, Taiwan people's zh, ch, sh are no different from Beijing people's zh, ch, sh in Mandarin. The
people who pronounce differently are generally due to their own local accents coloring their
Mandarin pronunciations.

Can you back up this statement? (ie - show us a comparison)










muyongshi -



Quote:

Taiwan people's zh, ch, sh are no different from Beijing people's zh, ch, sh in Mandarin.

Hey can I have some of that weed you smokin'?

There is a BIG difference. They don't curl there tongue (taiwanese). I have never met a taiwanese
person who doesn't drop the h's in those. All you have to do is watch even a movie like
不能说的秘密 and you hear it right away (ok so it took me 3 times until I heard because
sichuan people do the same thing so I am used to it....) and the difference is really obvious!










xiaocai -



Quote:

There is a BIG difference. They don't curl there tongue (taiwanese).

That is because what you heard is not STANDARD taiwanese mandarin. The only way to differentiate
zh, ch, sh from z, c, s is to curl your tongue and if you don't, then that is not standard
mandarin. Maybe you can try to watch news broadcast by taiwanese anchors (but very little chance
if you live in mainland, I guess) and you will find at least most of them will speak standard
taiwanese mandarin with a distinct accent from those of CCTV, and do curl their tongue
nevertheless.










82riceballs -



Quote:


Originally Posted by muyongshi

I have never met a taiwanese person who doesn't drop the h's in those.


Maybe you haven't met enough Taiwanese people... Are there really any in Sichuan? My Taiwanese
friend from Taipei pronounces all of her zh ch and sh by curling her tongue.










jbradfor -

At least when I was in Taiwan ('89), after the sh/s difference, the biggest difference I found
between "standard mandarin" (i.e. what we were taught) and "Taiwanese mandarin" (i.e. what my
roommates spoke) was the pronunciation of 和 : he2 vs han4.










atitarev -

My 2 cents about Mandarin in Taiwan.

I agree standard Mandarin is not usually spoken in the street the way it should be. I met a few
Taiwanese in Australia, they all drop they H's in shi, chi, zhi. However standard (prescribed)
Mandarin in Taiwan is much more similar to Beijing's Mandarin in terms of pronunciation (main
difference being absence of 儿化 in Taiwan + others, mentioned above). I heard some recording -
comics, children's short-stories. They are all pronounced very well. As Xiaocai mentioned, TV
anchors curl the tongues well.

Listen to Teresa Teng's (邓丽君) songs (Taiwan)! You can learn the best Mandarin just by
listening to her songs! So well-articulated, classical pronunciation, IMHO. Other singers of
Taiwanese origin have a very similar trained pronunciation, different from other Taiwanese people.










cdn_in_bj -



Quote:

That is because what you heard is not STANDARD taiwanese mandarin.

Where would one encounter standard mandarin in Taiwan, besides from listening to news broadcasts?
I hope this question doesn't come across as being argumentative - I am genuinely curious.



Quote:

Maybe you haven't met enough Taiwanese people... Are there really any in Sichuan? My Taiwanese
friend from Taipei pronounces all of her zh ch and sh by curling her tongue.

All of the people I've met from Taiwan do not curl their tongues when they speak, and this
includes people who are true Taiwanese natives as well as those brought up in families that
originally migrated from the mainland during the Communist revolution, so I would've assumed what
I was hearing from them could be considered "standard Taiwan mandarin" (for lack of a better
term). These people would've immigrated to North America in the late 60's to 70's - perhaps the
pronunciation being taught in Taiwan has changed/become closer to "standard northern mainland
mandarin" with the younger generation(s)?










cdn_in_bj -

I should also add that I know of a few native Beijingers who have spent significant time in Taiwan
for work, and when they come back they speak with the stereotypical (dropped-H) Taiwan accent. Of
course, it doesn't take them much time to adjust back, but I think one of them does it
intentionally to sound "cool". Have any of you met "poseurs" like this? I find it quite amusing
myself.










muyongshi -



Quote:

Maybe you haven't met enough Taiwanese people... Are there really any in Sichuan? My Taiwanese
friend from Taipei pronounces all of her zh ch and sh by curling her tongue.

No there is none, but I have met a few in the states as well as after watching a good amount of
Taiwanese tv shows and movies (which none then have used "standard" as you so put it). None of
them do it. And to me that is odd as many times movies and tv shows are the ones that push for
standard speaking.












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