Wednesday, December 24, 2008

Chinese language - Chinese Lesson




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Forum: Adsotrans.com Forum 6th March 2008, 02:04 PM

Replies: 4

Dumb vs. Intelligent Popups

Views: 230

Posted By tooironic


Re: Dumb vs. Intelligent Popups

Of course you will need to include all synonyms/possible character combinations. After all,
Chinese is such a context-dependent language, there is no way a computer could always get the word
right....



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Tuesday, December 23, 2008

Learning Mandarin - Chinese Lesson




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Search took 0.01 seconds; generated 3 minute(s) ago. Search: Posts Made By: kentsuarez

Forum: Speaking and Listening 3rd February 2005, 02:22 PM

Replies: 43

Why Do You Learn Chinese?(ple help me with the survey)

Views: 6,910

Posted By kentsuarez


language nut

Why? I love languages, and love really difficult challenges. So when I fell in love with a Sichuan
girl, that was the only added impetus necessary.

General background? Hispanic (Mexican-American),...



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Monday, December 22, 2008

Chinese Pinyin - Chinese Lesson




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Search took 0.01 seconds; generated 4 minute(s) ago. Search: Posts Made By: geraldc

Forum: Speaking and Listening 20th June 2004, 08:39 PM

Replies: 44

Poll: Why learning spoken Chinese as a foreigner is easy and hard

Views: 7,920

Posted By geraldc


The biggest problem in the West is that Chinese...

The biggest problem in the West is that Chinese isn't offered as a language option until
University.

In China and Hong Hong you meet people who moved around a lot as kids, and as a result they can...



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Sunday, December 21, 2008

Learn Mandarin online - Chinese Lesson




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Search took 0.01 seconds; generated 3 minute(s) ago. Search: Posts Made By: trevelyan

Forum: Speaking and Listening 30th April 2006, 01:39 PM

Replies: 12

Online pinyin dictionary with audio pinyin prnunciation

Views: 9,731

Posted By trevelyan


I haven't visited all of the links above so this...

I haven't visited all of the links above so this isn't intended as a comment on any particular
site, but be careful with online talking dictionaries as most simply generate the sounds by
stringing...



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Saturday, December 20, 2008

Learning Chinese - Chinese Lesson




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Showing results 1 to 11 of 11
Search took 0.01 seconds; generated 4 minute(s) ago. Search: Posts Made By: Quest

Forum: Speaking and Listening 12th June 2004, 08:56 AM

Replies: 51

how is wu pronounced?

Views: 5,601

Posted By Quest


If there is no glottal stop, then it must have a...

If there is no glottal stop, then it must have a w consonant?

乌 and 衣 are pronounced exactly the same in Cantonese as in Mandarin, btw, I always say them as
wuu and yee.
As you said, the glottal...



Forum: Speaking and Listening 11th June 2004, 04:00 PM

Replies: 51

how is wu pronounced?

Views: 5,601

Posted By Quest


next time find a drill :wink: or try this :wall...

next time find a drill :wink: or try this :wall

:tong...



Forum: Speaking and Listening 11th June 2004, 02:31 AM

Replies: 51

how is wu pronounced?

Views: 5,601

Posted By Quest


There is. Agree with HWnd. Don't get too hung up...

There is. Agree with HWnd.

Don't get too hung up on the pinyin spellings.



Forum: Speaking and Listening 30th March 2004, 02:55 PM

Replies: 51

how is wu pronounced?

Views: 5,601

Posted By Quest


I think I've made it clear, either you trust me...

I think I've made it clear, either you trust me or you do not. Just ask around. Smithsgj, Pinyin
does not work the same way as English. 路 is spelled lu but it is read le-woo-lu not le-ooo-lu;
the...



Forum: Speaking and Listening 30th March 2004, 12:30 PM

Replies: 51

how is wu pronounced?

Views: 5,601

Posted By Quest


路 is l-u4-lu4 (le-wu-lu4) same thing, if you...

路 is l-u4-lu4 (le-wu-lu4)

same thing, if you spell it out.

伍仪遇一医
so u agree with "ooo eee uuuu eee eee" ?



Forum: Speaking and Listening 30th March 2004, 07:52 AM

Replies: 51

how is wu pronounced?

Views: 5,601

Posted By Quest


saying "eee" and "oooo" is...

saying "eee" and "oooo" is nonstandard.



Forum: Speaking and Listening 30th March 2004, 07:25 AM

Replies: 51

how is wu pronounced?

Views: 5,601

Posted By Quest


ala: w, u, wu have the same sound. we all know...

ala: w, u, wu have the same sound. we all know why we spell "wu" instead of "u" (except maybe
smithsgj), but "u" is not "ooo"; written as it is, it is still pronounced "woo".

it is "a o e i(Yee)...



Forum: Speaking and Listening 30th March 2004, 06:06 AM

Replies: 51

how is wu pronounced?

Views: 5,601

Posted By Quest


well, if you can't hear it, and you can make...

well, if you can't hear it, and you can make yourself understood, keep saying what you believe
then.
Ala, concatenation is another thing. Also, if you listen to musics, many singers like to play on...



Forum: Speaking and Listening 30th March 2004, 05:23 AM

Replies: 51

how is wu pronounced?

Views: 5,601

Posted By Quest


no, you pronounce wu the same way you pronounce...

no, you pronounce wu the same way you pronounce wan, just a different vowel. 乌鸦 is (woo ya)
not (ooo ya). 中午 is (zhong woo) not (zhong ooo). I said they were redundant because "u" alone
is also...



Forum: Speaking and Listening 30th March 2004, 12:03 AM

Replies: 51

how is wu pronounced?

Views: 5,601

Posted By Quest


w and u both have the same sound in mandarin...

w and u both have the same sound in mandarin (i.e. "woo"). The y and w in "Yi and Wu" are
redundant, but they help people to realize that Yi is not E, and Wu is not OOO. The y and the w
sounds are...



Forum: Speaking and Listening 29th March 2004, 09:16 AM

Replies: 51

how is wu pronounced?

Views: 5,601

Posted By Quest


no, it is "woo" and sounds like...

no, it is "woo" and sounds like "woo", not "ooo" .



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Friday, December 19, 2008

Learn Chinese - Chinese Lesson




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Search took 0.01 seconds; generated 4 minute(s) ago. Search: Posts Made By: calibre2001

Forum: Speaking and Listening 26th June 2004, 09:30 AM

Replies: 55

Married to a Chinese in the U.S.?

Views: 7,036

Posted By calibre2001


A brief development of Oriental Asians on...

A brief development of Oriental Asians on American TV

Grossly generalizing, here's what I just thought out:

Pre 60s - Asians are viewed as ' yellow', unscrupulous, untouchables. World War 2...



Forum: Speaking and Listening 24th June 2004, 08:17 PM

Replies: 55

Married to a Chinese in the U.S.?

Views: 7,036

Posted By calibre2001


Its the media who always potray Asian men as...

Its the media who always potray Asian men as unsexy and all whilst glorifying White male-Asian
female relationships. Check out Asian American discussion forums. This topic is heavily debated
there.



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Thursday, December 18, 2008

Chinese Tutor - Chinese Lesson




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Search took 0.07 seconds; generated 4 minute(s) ago. Search: Posts Made By: jwarriner

Forum: Speaking and Listening 24th July 2003, 08:51 PM

Replies: 61

most embarrassing moment while learning Chinese

Views: 17,258

Posted By jwarriner


I've had plenty of embarrassing moments myself...

I've had plenty of embarrassing moments myself but one of the funniest happened to a friend of
mine. We were newly arrived in Taiwan. He wanted to say to this Chinese man, "Wo3 xiang3 wen4 ni3.
(I...



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Wednesday, December 17, 2008

Learning Chinese - Chinese Lesson




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Showing results 1 to 4 of 4
Search took 0.01 seconds; generated 4 minute(s) ago. Search: Posts Made By: Mugi

Forum: Speaking and Listening 5th July 2007, 11:01 PM

Replies: 62

Why do caucasians love English?

Views: 4,214

Posted By Mugi


Re: Why do caucasians love English?

Some sound advice!



Forum: Speaking and Listening 5th July 2007, 10:57 PM

Replies: 62

Why do caucasians love English?

Views: 4,214

Posted By Mugi


Re: Why do caucasians love English?

Why?


This may or may not be a good language acquisition method, but it appears not to be the situation
here.


This is getting a bit OT, but I never had this problem (and I'm as white as they come)...



Forum: Speaking and Listening 5th July 2007, 10:41 PM

Replies: 62

Why do caucasians love English?

Views: 4,214

Posted By Mugi


Re: Why do caucasians love English?

Sthubbar,

You may want to re-read my original post and work on your English reading comprehension before
focusing on your Chinese... The conclusions you draw regarding what is pretentious and what...



Forum: Speaking and Listening 5th July 2007, 02:39 PM

Replies: 62

Why do caucasians love English?

Views: 4,214

Posted By Mugi


Re: Why do caucasians love English?

The likelihood that two caucasians mutually speak better Chinese than English is small, so when
you do speak in Chinese together it looks/sounds incredibly pretentious to other foreigners and
many...



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Tuesday, December 16, 2008

Study Chinese - Chinese Lesson




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Showing results 1 to 2 of 2
Search took 0.01 seconds; generated 4 minute(s) ago. Search: Posts Made By: geek_frappa

Forum: Speaking and Listening 18th April 2004, 09:31 PM

Replies: 63

Practicing Chinese with Chinese is impossible!!!

Views: 9,598

Posted By geek_frappa


in fact, skylee is probably one of the more...

in fact, skylee is probably one of the more beautiful examples of hong kong girls. many girls who
come from hong kong and don't have an appetite for literature. her understanding of xiaoshuo and...



Forum: Speaking and Listening 18th April 2004, 09:22 PM

Replies: 63

Practicing Chinese with Chinese is impossible!!!

Views: 9,598

Posted By geek_frappa


yes! Chinese Americans are not ashamed of the...

yes!



Chinese Americans are not ashamed of the language. They are ashamed of the treatment they received
from the U.S. government and people in that past 150 years.

Chinese is beautiful, useful,...



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Monday, December 15, 2008

HSK Exam - Chinese Lesson




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Search took 0.01 seconds; generated 4 minute(s) ago. Search: Posts Made By: roddy

Forum: Speaking and Listening 16th August 2005, 11:11 AM

Replies: 66

Audio file: please criticise my pronunciation

Views: 6,849

Posted By roddy


Cool thread 8) I'm going to be the boring admin...

Cool thread 8)

I'm going to be the boring admin bloke and suggest starting new threads for different peoples'
audio files / in-depth discussion of tones, as it'll keep things a lot more managable....



Forum: Speaking and Listening 14th August 2005, 09:30 PM

Replies: 66

Audio file: please criticise my pronunciation

Views: 6,849

Posted By roddy


I wish that was true. I'm a classic 'didn't...

I wish that was true. I'm a classic 'didn't bother with the tones' learner and suffering for it
now. . .



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Sunday, December 14, 2008

HSK - Chinese Lesson




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Search took 0.01 seconds; generated 4 minute(s) ago. Search: Posts Made By: nipponman

Forum: Speaking and Listening 8th March 2007, 08:45 PM

Replies: 75

New Antiwave Podcast 人民大会谈4 - “东南西北”宋以朗 (下)

Views: 12,291

Posted By nipponman


Re: New Antiwave Podcast 超级难说6 - 猪年为何不能说猪?

Its similar with us Seventh-Day Adventists. We do not eat pork (and a lot of other animals too) or
any fish without fins and scales.



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Saturday, December 13, 2008

Chinese language - Chinese Lesson




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Showing results 1 to 4 of 4
Search took 0.02 seconds; generated 4 minute(s) ago. Search: Posts Made By: Quest

Forum: Speaking and Listening 4th February 2006, 05:27 AM

Replies: 77

which chinese dialect(s) do you like most?

Views: 8,451

Posted By Quest


I thought you've heard all the other Chinese...

I thought you've heard all the other Chinese languages to come to that conclusion.



Forum: Speaking and Listening 23rd January 2006, 07:35 AM

Replies: 77

which chinese dialect(s) do you like most?

Views: 8,451

Posted By Quest


But for every one of the caucasian celebrities,...

But for every one of the caucasian celebrities, there're 10 times more Chinese/Japnese/Korean
models... I think the number of Chinese that are actually into American pop culture is very
limited,...



Forum: Speaking and Listening 17th January 2006, 10:17 AM

Replies: 77

which chinese dialect(s) do you like most?

Views: 8,451

Posted By Quest


Native speakers dont have to concentrate heavily...

Native speakers dont have to concentrate heavily on the tones, and Shanghainese for Mandarin and
Cantonese speakers is not 'really easy' to speak.



Forum: Speaking and Listening 15th January 2006, 02:52 PM

Replies: 77

which chinese dialect(s) do you like most?

Views: 8,451

Posted By Quest


I don't think the 方言 label is political, it just...

I don't think the 方言 label is political, it just means 地方语言 local tongue. In Chinese,
I don't see anything wrong calling 上海话,广州话,客家话,福州话,
北京话,汉语方言。



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Thursday, December 11, 2008

Learn mandarin - The difference between 'q' and 'ch' - Page 3 -








> Learning Chinese > Speaking and Listening
The difference between 'q' and 'ch'
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Page 3 of 3 < 12 3






Jose -



Quote:

This is because they are two completely different sounds, made in different places in the mouth. I
can't imagine anyone with good Chinese, be they native or not, pronouncing these two the same way.
They might be related, but so are, for example, p, k and t, yet no one with decent English (Dutch,
Spanish, etc) would mix them up.

I am not arguing against how different they are, only stating that they have limited distinctive
value, and that is a very important criterion to know how much margin for mispronunciation you
have before you're misunderstood. Jerry Norman's "Chinese" has a short section (page 140) about
the disputed phonemic status of the palatals in Mandarin Chinese. You will not find anyone
disputing the phonemic status of p, k and t in Chinese or in any European language. Whether two
sounds are allophones or distinct phonemes does not depend on how much their points of
articulation differ, but on whether any minimal pairs can be found that are distinguished solely
because of either sound being used. For example, in English, the difference between the two
consonants /d/ and /ð/ is essential, as "day" and "they" are different words, but much less so in
Spanish, where the two sounds exist as variants of the "d" phoneme (and native speakers are not
even aware that there is a difference). You can pronounce a word like "candado" as /kan'dado/ and
you will sound fine (just a tad foreign) even if native speakers say something like /kaŋ'daðo/.

Anyway, I'm deviating too much from the original question. I only wanted to point out that when we
start to learn Chinese we may spend too much time trying to understand the difference between
"chu" and "qu" as a difference in the initial consonant, and it helps if you're aware that "qu" is
pronounced with the ü vowel. Because few consonants can occur in front of that vowel, if you get
the vowel and the tone right you will be understood, even if your "q" is not palatal enough. But,
of course, if you learn to produce a nice aspirated and palatal consonant, that will be much much
better.



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atitarev -

Jose,

I also agree with other posters that the distinction is very important, much more important than
your example in Spanish. Dialect speakers may mix shi/si, chi/ci, zhi/zi but never palatalized
with unpalatalised (qi/chi) or aspirated with unaspirated (qi/ji). This mix sound very foreign and
wrong, besides, not close enough to be understood in many cases. Try saying "7-8" in Mandarin
without palatalisation, you'll know what I mean.

Europeans have no problems picking up the difference between si/shi but usually have more
difficulties with qi/chi or qi/ji, whereas dialect speakers or speakers of some Asian countries
have the reverse.

I am one of the fans of Hanyu Pinyin system and I think it's a very good system, if it's
understood and used properly (Pinyin must be learned in combination with the Chinese phonetics).










Lu -



Quote:

if you get the vowel and the tone right you will be understood, even if your "q" is not palatal
enough. But, of course, if you learn to produce a nice aspirated and palatal consonant, that will
be much much better.

Again, getting it approximately right is fine if you just want to learn some quick Chinese for a
holiday, but if the OP is serious in learning Chinese, I think it's a very bad idea to start out
with only getting it chabuduo right. It'll be much harder to correct in the future.
Btw, sure if you get the vowel and the tone right you'll likely be understood, but many English
speakers have trouble with exactly that u, let alone tones.
I think the best thing the OP can do is find him/herself a native speaker to explain this sound.










leosmith -



Quote:

I am not arguing against how different they are, only stating that they have limited distinctive
value, and that is a very important criterion to know how much margin for mispronunciation you
have before you're misunderstood.

If you don't distinguish between the two, you will not be well understood, perhaps not understood
at all. You would know this if you actually tried it, right?

I agree with the others - a combo of Sinosplice, FSI, and Mandarin Chinese Phonetics will explain
it. For a summary:
1. to make the q sound, your tongue needs to be in the e (as in "eel") position. Without changing
its location, try to make a ch sound like in english.
2. to make the ch sound, your tongue needs to be in the ch (as in "churn") position. Without
changing its location, try to make a ch sound like in english.










Prase -

jose: Even if the theory is correct, (I think it isn't) how can you know that s/q/j are allophones
to sh/ch/zh and not to h/k/g or s/c/z?










here2learn -

Wow, plenty here about where to put your tongue.

I thought I had nothing left to contribute, BUT....

No one has mentioned our sexy lips.

Really... to make CH SH in English we pull the sides of our lips/cheeks in a bit. In chinese we
rarely do this. Relax the cheeks and mouth/lips, they may feel awkwardly "wide" at first, but
don't force them into anything, just relax them; don't pucker or pull them inward at all.

This goes for all the q,j,x, ch,sh,zh and probably more sounds. English has a lot of cheek
movement; chinese doesn't.

When I was learning French my cheeks often got tired; they should not get tired in Mandarin or
you're doing something wrong.










LaVandez -

Great stuff here but I get lost in this stuff on palatials and allophones. I think some of this
stuff has to be able to be explained in an easier less technical way so I do like it when there
are approximations but for me in this case I try to imagine exactly what is going on and I still
don't know if I quite get it.










leosmith -



Quote:

1. to make the q sound, your tongue needs to be in the e (as in "eel") position. Without changing
its location, try to make a ch sound like in english.
2. to make the ch sound, your tongue needs to be in the ch (as in "churn") position. Without
changing its location, try to make a ch sound like in english.



Quote:

Great stuff here but I get lost in this stuff on palatials and allophones. I think some of this
stuff has to be able to be explained in an easier less technical way so I do like it when there
are approximations but for me in this case I try to imagine exactly what is going on and I still
don't know if I quite get it.

Still don't get it?










Prase -

To get x, try to pronounce english sh while touching your lower teeth with your tongue. As sh
cannot be pronounced with the tongue in this position, you should get x.
To get pinyin sh, try to pronounce sh with the tongue curled back. Or you may try this:
http://www. /showthread.php?t=22844

Then it shouldn't be too much difficult to get q and j from x and zh and ch from sh.

However, it is absolutely necessary you can distinguish them in speech of natives first. Otherwise
you will not be able to recognise if you pronounce them correctly or not. You would be like a deaf
man who is trying to learn to speak.












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Wednesday, December 10, 2008

Learn Chinese - Where do i go in China to learn intensively Mandarin? - Page 3 -








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Where do i go in China to learn intensively Mandarin?
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muyongshi -

I agree with fireball on this...

In terms of mandarin the variation of accents does make the possibility of not being understood in
certain regions very HIGH! In general no it doesn't have a huge effect but I know people that
complain that Sichuan people can't understand their accents (I'm talking native chinese from xi'an
and some dong bei places). I can understand the local accents of many places now due to the fact
that I can understand the sichuan accent (hainan, shaanxi, taiwan are just a few where there are
many similarities of the sound- with a lot less of an accent though than sichuan). In english I
have never encountered an accent I couldn't understand (unless it's one that is chalked full of
odd word usage but that has to do with understanding there meaning not what is coming out of your
mouth). I think in terms of studying mandarin it is better to study in a place with a generally
neutral accent and not somewhere like beijing (wait a minute why am I in Sichuan??????? it's not
neutral....). But that is just my opinion.



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littleknight23 -

I agree with fireball on this, too
One of my colleges got much trouble when he traveled to Beijing on business, he found it’s
somewhat difficulty to understand the people there- and the other side found that too. He is well
educated, a guy with a bachelor degree, but he have never traveled to North China before that
trip... Of course the number of this kind is small
Sorry for my poor English. I am a native Chinese speaker.










daliantli -

Hi pdsola:
wo kan jian ni zai " .There're something wrong with our Email.So please send the
e-mail to us according this address:dltli@yahoo.com.cn .
Thank you very much!



Best regards!

Dalian TLI

Jan,8,2008










tongjistudy -

In Shanghai, Tongji University International School JBC offers full-time and part-time Mandarin
courses. Our students study from 12 to 36 weeks. www.tongjistudy.com

Students like Shanghai because it's an international city and of course there are many choices for
entertainment. It's convenient also a great starting point for travel around China.

Our students who are most successful in learning the language are very determined to practise
wherever and whenever they have the opportunity. One of our best students gave a presentation on
his learning experience in China.

He emphasized reading, listening, speaking, writing as much as possible in any daily situation as
well as the classroom. It's important to make Chinese friends and even say you don't speak English
if you're from Europe etc. Maximize your opportunities to speak Mandarin and find your best
methods to learning the language.

It is possible to learn Mandarin successfully in Shanghai in addition to enjoying the attractions
and conveniences.










jiaoshou -

With all the talk about Xi'an on this thread, does anyone have a recommendation for an intensive
Mandarin course, or Institute offering individual or small group courses in Xi'an?










monto -

In my opinion,
Han Language is not a fast food. If not pressed by the way of life, don't take any intensive one.












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Tuesday, December 9, 2008

Learn Chinese - how to speak a chinese text - Page 2 -








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mathiassan -

查词典.多听些新闻.



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xuanthien -

Thanks . I feel more encouraged in learning chinese.












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Monday, December 8, 2008

Chinese Mandarin - 了 - where to put? -








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了 - where to put?
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Saturday -

I've been finding it rather difficult to know where in a sentence I should put the "了". And I
haven't really got a proper explanation on the subject when asking teachers and friends.

So, not. Once and for all. Can someone please tell me the difference in putting the 了 directly
after the verb, and putting it at the end of a sentence.

Take these two sentences for example:
你昨天去哪儿了?
去参加了一个中国的朋友的婚礼。

Why do you put the 了 in the end in the first sentence, but directly after the verb in the second
one.





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imron -

See here. Please add any remaining questions you have to the end of that thread once you have read
through it all. Incidentally, that thread could have been found by looking in the "All "Simple,"
yet confusing grammar rules" sticky.












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Sunday, December 7, 2008

Learn mandarin - BOTM November 2007,《雷雨》 - Page 2 -








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BOTM November 2007,《雷雨》
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muyongshi -

Okay.... I see where I got confused....consistency is a good thing to avoid my own confusion....

And thank you studentyoung but I was referring to the links not the meaning of the words.



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文言訓開班 -

Is there something wrong with my browser, or is 景 empty?










c_redman -

The oklink.net index does seem to be off, as well as the rar download. The subpages start at
000.htm, although there is no link to that page. I think these links are more accurate:


第一幕
第二幕
第三幕
第四幕
尾声










gato -

Maybe change the title of this thread to include the name of the play since it's now been decided
what to read.










文言訓開班 -

thanks alot, c_redman!










imron -



Quote:

Maybe change the title of this thread to include the name of the play

Done.










imron -

How are people coming along with this? I've just finished 第一幕 (i.e leiy/001.htm)

So far we know: 3 people are going to die before the end of the play, and 2 of them are going to
go crazy.

The main characters introduced so far include:

1) 周朴园 owner of a mine, husband of 周繁漪, father of 周萍 and 周冲

2) 周繁漪 wife of 周朴园, step-mother of 周萍 (who she also has had an affair with), and
mother of 周冲.

3) 周萍 son of 周朴园, had an affair with step-mother 周繁漪, currently in love with
四凤, a servant in the 周 household.

4) 周冲, son of 周朴园, half-brother of 周萍, also in love with 四凤.

5) 四凤 servant of the 周 household, in love with 周萍, sister of 鲁大海

6) 鲁贵, servant of the 周 household, father of 四凤 and 鲁大海.

7) 鲁大海, son of 鲁贵, works in 周朴园's mine, and is responsible for a recent strike
there.










roddy -

I saved this into Word docs for (theoretical, future) viewing on my PDA, attaching here in case
they're of use to anyone.










muyongshi -

Sorry last week was busy and finally finished 第一幕 yesterday.... It's interesting but I can't
say much else for it.

Does anyone know the time era they are shooting for? Sounds like an early 1900's time frame maybe
even up to early 1930's....










imron -

Well, if you think the character synopsis from act 1 was worthy of "days of our lives", wait until
you finish the second act. It gets even more complicated!












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Saturday, December 6, 2008

Learn Chinese online - want better name than 儸伯特 -








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want better name than 儸伯特
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shibole -

Currently I'm using 石 as my surname and 儸伯特 or 羅伯特 as my given name.

I like 石 because it matches the meaning and vaguely matches the pronunciation of my real surname
(despite the fact that my wife says it's also a given name used by country bumpkins), but I don't
like 儸伯特 very much, partly because it's too long (in my opinion), but also because my wife
tells me that luó is also girl's name (so I don't want to just go by "儸") and I don't really
like the meaning of 伯特: "special uncle". Also I think that 羅伯特 or 罗伯特 is a
pretty standard transliteration of "Robert" and isn't very unique.

Any suggestions on coming up with a better name? Should I just pick a random Chinese name that I
like the same way that many Chinese English students pick a random western name to use?

Luckily I'm not in China or something with lots of people already calling me luóbótè so it
doesn't seem too late to change it.

PS: and for the record I don't really like 裸伯特 or 蘿蔔特 either.



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skylee -

Consider 石樂伯










shibole -



Quote:

Consider 石樂伯

Thats a good one! Thanks!

樂 is one of my favorite looking characters, especially in seal script. I've actually carved it
into stone a couple of times already.










shibole -

When I mentioned the 樂伯 idea to my wife she mentioned that there is a famous historical figure
of some sort named 伯樂 who was known for being able to spot the best horses or something,
leading to the expression "他是我的伯樂" meaning someone who is able to recognize your
talent or something.

So now I'm wondering if maybe it's reasonable to use the given name 伯樂 or if that would seem
too silly to people. The phonetic match to my real given name becomes even weaker but does that
really matter?

Here is an article on bólè in English: http://everything2.com/index.pl?node...erfect%20horse

Thanks!










studentyoung -

How about 石乐波? “乐波”-> Happy waves. Hehe. Hope you will like it.

祝你的乐事一波接一波啊!(May happy things happen in your life like wave after wave,
i.e. never stop.)

Cheers!










jonaspony -

I suppose 石萝卜 is out of the question.

Studentyoung stop saying 'Cheers!'

Thanks!










muyongshi -

So now you two have switched expressions huh???










shibole -



Quote:

I suppose 石萝卜 is out of the question.

From the original message:



Quote:

PS: and for the record I don't really like 裸伯特 or 蘿蔔特 either.

蘿蔔 = 萝卜












skylee -

Just pick the name you like and ask for your wife's opinion. If she could tell you the story about
伯樂 then she is well qualified to get you a good name.

Regarding 伯樂 as a name, it is actually used by the CEO of a railway company in HK. His name is
James Blake and his Chinese name is 詹伯樂.










shibole -



Quote:

Regarding 伯樂 as a name, it is actually used by the CEO of a railway company in HK. His name is
James Blake and his Chinese name is 詹伯樂.

Thanks for the info Skylee!

My main fear was that using a name like 伯樂 would be like naming myself 孔子 or something. My
wife didn't remember anything about 伯樂 except the expression "我的伯樂" and that he was
known for judging horses so I thought I might do some more research.

I think I will use 石伯樂. Now I just need to create myself a new user account and carve myself
a new name chop












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Friday, December 5, 2008

Chinese Tutor - "并不是"的意思 -








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"并不是"的意思
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lilongyue -

A little foggy on this one. Suggestions?



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cdn_in_bj -

老外并不是都很有钱的










Lu -

Definitely is not, are most certainly not, it is certainly not so that. Gives emphasis, in this
case to the 不.










muyongshi -

Not a great way to translate it but "is actually not xxx" So in the above example: all foreigners
are actually not rich...










Lu -



Quote:

all foreigners are actually not rich

Now maybe I'm wrong but to me this seems to say that there are no rich foreigners, that actually
they are all kinda poor. Please enlighten me if I'm misunderstanding this.
I'd translate the sentence in the example as Actually not all foreigners are rich.










muyongshi -

No you're right...in a moment of confusion i forgot where to put the actually in the
sentence...guess i'm not suited to be a translator except in my own head I always understand what
I mean










adrianlondon -

I'd translate "There really are no rich foreigners" as 老外都并不是很有钱的 and "Not
every foreigner is rich you know" as 老外并不是都很有钱的.










lionheart2009 -

This should be translated to " not necessarily" . so it is actually " all foreigners are not
necessarily rich " . or "all foreigners are not rich necessarily" .










Yiwan -

I rather say 并不是每个老外都有钱.










LiYuanXi -

I think you can put 并不是 in both the middle sentence or at the beginning. It works both ways.












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Thursday, December 4, 2008

Chinese Online Class - Your opinion on this name -








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Stefani -

I would like to get your opinion on my son's name:

黄启仁 (Simplified - Huang Qi Ren)

Is it a good name? What make you think of when you hear that name?

Xie xie.



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skylee -

It is a normal and ordinary name.










alexyee -

I would not recommend this name. You know 启仁 sounds very like (if not exactly) 气人, which
means 'annoying'. How about

黄凯盛
黄仲伯
黄书恒
黄轩辕

??


Alex Yee

Shanghai

MSN: yidongzhuo7@hotmail.com










fireball9261 -

If I just look at the words, it looks like I am looking at some revolutionary's name in the
history book. However, 启仁 does sound like 气人. Although, 启 is 3rd tone and 气 is 4th
tone. Also, it feels too proper and old fashioned. If you want to give that impression, keep it.
If you want a name to sound more modern and cool, you might want to pick something else.










Stefani -

Thank you for your replies, skylee, alexyee, and fireball9261.

I really like the character Ren and I thought Qi Ren can mean "one who inspires kindness".

Can you suggest what good name will go in the middle (Huang ??? Ren)?

Xie xie!










OracleBone -

What about 黄睿仁 or 黄裕仁 or 黄毅仁?

Must not choose 黄世仁, which is a bad guy in one of the most popular Chinese dramas.










fireball9261 -

黄睿仁 - I am not sure about this one
黄裕仁 - Sounded like a Japanese
黄毅仁 - I like this one best.










Yiwan -

Despite of being the name of a known fictional villain, 黄世仁 sounds good with great meaning
behind it.










caaat -

why you choose the famliy name as 黄?
because of the mother?

you know the name is end by 仁 in Chinese it like 人 黄?仁 makes the name sound like
某某人。so I think the name can be 黄正仁。in Chinese we say: 正人君子。

how about it?










Stefani -



Quote:

why you choose the famliy name as 黄?
because of the mother?

Yes, I am his mother, and my Chinese last name is 黄. I am Chinese Indonesian (Yinni Huaqiao),
but I don't speak Chinese (I am learning it now, but still very much a beginner).

Thank you for your suggestion, I will consider all the inputs given here.

What does 正人君子 mean? First month, person, nobleman?

Xie xie.












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Wednesday, December 3, 2008

Learning Chinese - 要 for will -








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要 for will
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Ari 桑 -

Is there any difference between the grammar for 要 and 打算 when you mean will. And how exactly
do you distinguish between "want" and "will?"

How does one tell that 我明年要到中国去 means "next year I will go to china" and not "next
year I want to go to china?" Context?



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rootfool -



Quote:

How does one tell that 我明年要到中国去 means "next year I will go to china" and not "next
year I want to go to china?" Context?

It's hard to distinguish the two meanings from this simple sentence.You can get the exact meaning
from the context.
To me,if I want to say "i will",i will use "我明年会到中国去 or 明年我将去中国"
and for "i want",it's "我明年想要到中国去"

Hmm,it's just a personal opinion.










cdn_in_bj -

Check out this thread:

http://www. /showthread.php?t=18726

You can also use 想 to convey "want" or "desire to" where the use of 要 might be ambiguous.










optical -

This is something I would really like to understand forwards and backwards, inside and out.

How can I clarify, or tell the difference between a 要 that means I want to, and I need to?

For example, a friend of mine on QQ said to me just now:

今天我要工作啊
So to my beginner eyes, I initially read this as "I want to work today", but given the context of
my question (Will you go to such and such place today?) it is somewhat clear that this actually
means "I have to work today[so I cannot go]".

Is there any kind of marker in the grammar that says this means "Have to" or is it entirely based
on the context?

Lets look at this example dialog (full of errors I'm sure)
A: 下课以后你干什么?
B: 我要吃饭

Grammar errors aside, in this scenario is the person answering, "I want to eat" or "I have to
eat"? Whichever one is true, what are you looking at to come to this conclusion?










muyongshi -

There is not going to be a rule about this...you need to learn the Chinese 范围 for their uses
or you will be confused for a long time. But I will give you a little quick thing about some of
their major differences and hopefully that will help.

1) The meaning of 要 is more like our idea of "going to" rather than our want
2) The meaning of 想 is more like our idea of "want" rather than thinking about it.

I know that when we say in English "I am thinking of buying xxx" we are leaning towards actually
buying it where as we say "I want to buy xxx" we are simply expressing a desire and there is not
concrete plans.... In Chinese it's opposite. 我要买 is not I want to but that I am going to (of
course with room for changing your mind) and 我想买 expresses more of just the desire rather
than I am thinking of doing it (so in essence planning to).



Quote:

Lets look at this example dialog (full of errors I'm sure)
A: 下课以后你干什么?
B: 我要吃饭

(By the way it would probably be said 你要干什么)

The 要 in this examples expresses I am going to eat food and there is no have to in any any
example. In your first example there is a flavor of "I have to...." but it means I am going to be
working at that time so I can't come...

If something still is confusing I can try to explain it a bit clearer....












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Tuesday, December 2, 2008

Free Chinese Lesson - Help! Pronunciation "coaching" with non-teacher. - Page 2 -








> Learning Chinese > Speaking and Listening
Help! Pronunciation "coaching" with non-teacher.
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gato -

Recording your wife and yourself and comparing the two seem the easiest option short of hiring a
professional language teacher.



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bomaci -

A trick which might help with tricky vowel sounds is to have your wife whisper them to you.
For instance have her wishper "shi zhi chi" (湿知吃). You will find that vowels when whispered
get different pitches so you will hear a sort of whispered melody which you should then try to
imitate. For the ü sound you could for instance let her whisper "qi1 qu1 ji1 ju1 (七区鸡居)
This should allow you to hear the changes in pitch between "qi" and "qu" and imitate them.
Once you can whisper the vowels at the same pitches as your wife just turn on the "voice box" and
see what happens. An even better idea is of course if your wife can record these things for you so
you can practice them on your own.










bomaci -



Quote:

I don't think you can expect to have perfect pronounciation from the start. Improvement comes
naturally with practise. As long as your wife can understand what you're saying, I wouldn't worry
too much.

Just because your wife understands you doesn't mean that everyone else will! If you speak to
someone everyday you get used to their accent and pronouciation quirks and thus your wife will
have a much easier time understanding you than a native speaker who is not used to your accent. My
view is that you should try as much as you possibly can to perfect your pronunciation on your own.
You have to train your ears to hear what sounds right and what sounds wrong. Apart from the tips I
gave above you can also let your wife record sentences for you which you can then chorus. Of
course you could try chorusing live with your wife as well (I.e let her say a sentence over and
over while you speak along with her, trying to match her speech rhythm excactly) but this can be
pretty tiring for her and your bound to stop before having reached optimal results. Have your wife
record 20-30 sentences for you (at natural speed!) and chorus these until you can say them
excactly like your wife. Having done that you will find that you will find that listening to
chinese will be much easier, and you will find it easier to imitate new words as well.










shibole -

Wow, I've gotten more and better advice than I could have originally hoped for. Thanks everyone!










shibole -

Following up on the suggestions to download Audacity and use it to check my pronunciation, I
figured that someone had to have a tool more specifically intended for this kind of thing. I did a
bit of searching around and found this:

http://www.sil.org/computing/catalog...ware.asp?id=57

Unfortunately: "The Speech Analyzer download is temporarily unavailable while we correct a serious
bug in the installer. Please check back later."

Doh!

Sucks that I just found this and it isn't there.

Anyone know if it's any good?










shibole -

Another program I have found to be quite helpful: http://www.speakgoodchinese.org/
Not sure how I missed this on the wiki until recently.










shibole -

That program will plot a little graph showing your tone. If you're already a master of tone it
probably won't be that helpful, but it's much better than using the tone analysis stuff in
Audacity, for example, because "Speak Good Chinese" actually isolates/recognizes the sylable and
can analyze the tone based on that. So it isn't "generic" audio tone analysis but a smart sort of
tone analysis that can actually plot a line based on tone (assuming you pronounce the specified
word correctly).

The fact that you need to pronounce the sylable somewhat correctly also means that if it isn't
working correctly you might want to check your pronunciation of that sound. Of course sometimes it
seems to work poorly and people tell me that I am pronouncing the sylable pretty well, so it isn't
perfect.

I have this tendency to make the 2nd tone sound almost like a 3rd tone, and it has helped me
correct that. I also have tone problems with certain sounds like "yue" that I just don't pronounce
well period.

On a related note the speech anaylzer link now says "During recent testing we have discovered an
incompatibility between a component of Speech Analyzer and a component of FieldWorks. We are
temporarily making the download of Speech Analyzer unavailable until we have a new version that
corrects this problem. Please check back later." so I guess they're working on it. I wish they'd
just let me download the thing since I don't use FieldWorks or know what it is....










imron -



Quote:

We are temporarily making the download of Speech Analyzer unavailable until we have a new version
that corrects this problem. Please check back later."

Don't know if it's any help, but a little bit further down the page, it mentions:

Quote:

An older, non-Unicode version of Speech Analyzer (version 2.7) is bundled with Speech Tools 2.2












marcusat -

i think the best way that works for me is to always get the frustrated teacher to not just bark
the correct answer, but first say

"the is what you sound like XXX, and this is how it should sound XXX"

that way you can compare the wrong with the right directly, because sometimes you think your doing
it exactly the same, but to the native ear it sounds wrong. good luck










shibole -

Thanks! We'll try that.












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Sunday, November 23, 2008

Learn Chinese - Guide for Formatting Wiki Articles in








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gato -

Simplified the formatting guide to reflect the new style.










muyongshi -

When I get around to it










muyongshi -

Dang you beat me!










muyongshi -



Quote:

Well I should be able to make CSS changes on the back end to get it looking how we want. What
changes do you reckon need to be made?

Can you tell me what the font sizes are preset to now from h1 down to h4 or h5.

Also if we could reduce the spacing in between each header that would be great.

A general rule in page layout (more familiar with that than HTML) is your H1 and H2 should have no
larger than a 2 pt. reduction in size and then after that no more than a 1 pt reduction per header
and usually by the time you get to H3 or H4 you are at a 12pt font

so

H1=16pt
h2=14pt
h3=13pt
h4=12pt
etc.

You usually will not get down to that many points and actually after h4 you may not reduce the
font size just change style.

Of course Style changes work great in the h1-h4 as well...










gato -

Currently, there seems to be two blank spaces between h1 and h2. Should be just one or maybe 1.5.
That may also be the case between the other headings.












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Saturday, November 22, 2008

Chinese Online Class - ZDT: merge categories? -








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ZDT: merge categories?
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volga_volga -

is there an easy way to merge categories in ZDT? for eg I have lists for lessons 1 to 10, I'd like
to grow one list as I progress from lesson 1 up, instead of having 10 different word lists for
each lesson.

apart from merging/copy paste from one txt file (with word lists) to another, is there a way to
merge categories in ZDT? thanks



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bogleg -

Well, you could also export your list(s) and import them back in to the category you want to merge
into. Still, I realize that's not super convenient. Overhauling the category view is something
that's on my list of things to do.

Chris










volga_volga -

Oh, I didn't know I could import into a particular category! last time I checked, I couldn't find
it - but may be I checked an older version. Now I have found it and it almost solves my problem!
thank you Chris and what a fantastic tool you have created!!












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Friday, November 21, 2008

Chinese language - Is it that hard for me to find a foreign boyfriend?! - Page 2 -








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Is it that hard for me to find a foreign boyfriend?!
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adrianlondon -

This isn't really anything to do with "Westerners" vs "Chinese". It's to do with "locals" vs
"foreigners".

Foreigners in Beijing are likely to be there for a reason such as study or contract work. Both of
these mean the person is only in china for a fixed amount of time. From 6 months to 2 years on
average. No one really wants to get into a deep relationship and then break it off before going
home.

It has to be real love to either change one's plans and stay in China, or to "import" your new
boy/girlfriend back to your own country when you leave.

So, most people will be looking just for sex and, if love comes on from that, then that'll be
dealt with as it happens.

You yourself say you're wanting to leave and study in the US. So, if you meet a nice boyfriend,
let's say one from England just as an example, and you fall in love ... then what? Either he'll go
back to England or you'll go to the US. Then the relationship ends (after a couple of months of
pretending it's working over emails, phione calls and MSN).



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Lu -

Reisen,
Please don't try so hard. Have fun, enjoy your student life. Meet people, be they male or female,
Chinese or foreigner, make friends. Maybe one of them will end up being your boyfriend, maybe not.
Being desperate for a man is generally not the best way to find a good one, be he foreign or
Chinese. Also, I think men prefer happy women who like their life over women who want a man to
fill their life for them.
And in the end, friends are more important than men. They can stay with you across time and
continents.

And take all my advice with a big grain of salt, as without trying too hard at all I've still been
single for the last five years or so.










elina -



Quote:


Originally Posted by muyongshi

you need to just relax and enjoy life and learn to be content being single. There are so many
thing that you can't do in a relationship that you can do when single. Relax and enjoy life! Then
in the right time the right guy will come along and you won't have to try so hard.




Quote:


Originally Posted by Lu

Please don't try so hard. Have fun, enjoy your student life. Meet people, be they male or female,
Chinese or foreigner, make friends. Maybe one of them will end up being your boyfriend, maybe not.
Being desperate for a man is generally not the best way to find a good one, be he foreign or
Chinese. Also, I think men prefer happy women who like their life over women who want a man to
fill their life for them.


I agree with the above. I think you’d better 随缘, but don’t refuse 一切缘, no matter
it’s from a Chinese or foreigner, then you’ll feel comfortable, free and happy.










mind_wander -



Quote:

Please don't try so hard. Have fun, enjoy your student life. Meet people, be they male or female,
Chinese or foreigner, make friends. Maybe one of them will end up being your boyfriend, maybe not.
Being desperate for a man is generally not the best way to find a good one, be he foreign or
Chinese. Also, I think men prefer happy women who like their life over women who want a man to
fill their life for them.
And in the end, friends are more important than men. They can stay with you across time and
continents.

And take all my advice with a big grain of salt, as without trying too hard at all I've still been
single for the last five years or so (Lu).

Well, I am an Asian dude from the US. Most people online from China, didn't have trouble making
friends with me; more people wanted to learn about the Western Culture. Besides the time zone
differences, school, etc. I rather suggest take one step at a time, as everyone mentioned on this
thread; there are so many combinations when selecting or foreign guys, there might be something
you like and don't like. As for being in a serious relationship is not on my mind at this point,
maybe down the road (See its really true point many people has commented).

Oh yeah, alot of people forgot to mentioned this; when you entered the US, depending which area
your planning to study abroad in the US. If you are heading into California, there will be alot of
Asian people there and NYC. However, there is not alot of Asians in the US (6%), so this would be
your culture shock; but this does increases your chances to find foreign friends here in the US.
But, I feel everyone's comments are very positive and realistic to the point. Most of the Western
world is very independent, so being over friendly or respectful is a give or take; not alot of
people know too much about the Asian culture, but there is are people yearning in wanting to learn
about Asian culture.










DarrenJew -

reisen

If your planning to go to the US to study next year... you'll find a dozen boyfriends to go out
with you. Asian girls are in demand in America. Caucasian guy's can't get enough asian girls.
Though you may find a lot of guy's to go out with you... take your time to find a good guy. There
are a lot of jerks out there and a lot that just want to take you to bed then move onto the next
girl... they will say anything to you to charm you. Not only white but black guys and lots of
lonely asian guys...Asian guy's are lonely because many asian women in america are choosing to go
out with white guys.










CheukMo -

I agree to a large extent with DarrenJew. Asian girls are really sought after in the U.S.

As for foreign guys, especially American guys, they are all looking for sex. Some may be open for
more (love) and some just want sex. As for Nanjing, just introduce yourself to some and see what
happens. Be a friend in helping some with their Mandarin, etc but don't commit to anything other
than being a friend. If they just want sex, they will stop paying attention to in a short amount
of time.










yonglin -



Quote:

Asian guy's are lonely because many asian women in america are choosing to go out with white guys.

Asian guys need to be more assserrtive.










reisen -

Well, Thanks so much for all the people.I have seen so many replys ^^ Thanks!

I just felt lonly and helpless, then started to think of having a boyfriend or something like that.
Maybe I should not expect that much. And adjust myself to new condition first.Maybe I should Try
to be happy and satisfied, and keep a quite mood.

My dream is traveling around the world with somebody I love, then when we getting old, build a
house in Germany or Scandinavia, and live there happiliy. We can share our memories together, help
with each other. I think sex is nice, but love is a more wonderful thing in this world, like you
can always think of the other one and he thinks of you. The world is so big and cold, and we are
all so lonly.

anyway, dream is only dream.
I should think more about being alone and happy. And realize my dream that travelling around the
world by myself.










Loriquero -

You should just make some friends

love is one of those things that you usually find when you are not seeking for it










Woodpecker -

"Reisen... be as idealistic as you want. But just remember few other people are so idealistic.
That's what makes idealism great, heroic and very difficult."

From what I've seen it's actually hard for both genders. Men have gained themselves a reputation
for wanting girls just for sex, and moving from one girl to another. For every Mr. Darcey (good
man) there are 5 Mr. Wickhams. Ironically, those very jerks seem to get the most attention from
girls. As a result, their victims get put off dating and it becomes that much harder for men who
are romantic idealists, good, honest and kind, to find their 'Princess'. The good guys pay for the
sins of the bad. On the other hand, there are some girls who are really quite unattractive in
terms of who they are. Gold diggers and selfish, controlling people who will marry to get what
they want not for love...you get the idea. Those people can put off the men and lose all hope of
finding a handsome, moral 'Prince'.

The best thing you can do is to make friends, and there is nothing wrong with that - they are the
ones who will support you in your lonely moments. Friendship builds trust, which is needed for any
relationship, friends or otherwise. If you meet a guy you like, then they will be more open to you
if they know you can be trusted as well. Some have had their fingers burned by female jerks.
You'll soon know if they are boyfriend material or not. At least, that's how I see it. And don't
have a relationship just for the sake of it.

Remember, there are good men out there (and good girls too!), so don't lose hope. Good luck!












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