Free Chinese Lesson - The Second and Third Tone -

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The Second and Third Tone
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Hero Doug -

I've given myself a bit of a test; I made a list of simple sounds (fa, la, ma, na etc) and given
each one a tone (1-4). There were about 35 in total. I would just say the sound and have the
native speaker identify which tone I was saying.

I know this is also dependant on the speakers Chinese ability, but I've done it with a few people
now and the second and third are the ones I consistantly get wrong.

So I'm wondering if anyone can give a bit of advice on how they say words of the second or third
tone.

For the second tone what I've been doing is very slightly lowering my voice at the beginning and
raising it, but I think the problem I'm having is I'm not going high enough.

The third tone I'm just lowering my voice from the get go and not bothering to raise it at the end
(I remember reading it would raise naturally when finished).

Anyways, I'm greatful for any advice thrown my way.



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againstwind -

I wonder if you can record your pronunciations and upload here.Then we are likely to give you some
helpful advice pertinently.










character -



Quote:

For the second tone what I've been doing is very slightly lowering my voice at the beginning and
raising it, but I think the problem I'm having is I'm not going high enough.

My guess would be the lowering is the problem. The free FSI Chinese course has good descriptions
of the tones. http://www.fsi-language-courses.com/Chinese.aspx










<<恒心>> -

Hero Doug:

My guess would be that the tone Sandhi is messing you up... search around the forums for info on
that and review this in whatever text you're using. Memorize the rules for the third tone sandhi
and drill it into your soul!

One useful exercise I can think of is to make lists of words with the third tone as the first
character, so write a page of common words with 3+1, 3+2, 3+3, 3+4 and 3+neutral tone and practice
their proper proninciation with your Chinese friends. Just practice this until you're not fazed by
the tone changes and begin to accept the modified thrid tone as natural.

Another big thing to be aware of is that some words like 不 change tones depending on context;
不 changes to a second tone before a fourth tone or a fourth tone that has changed into a neutral
tone, so "不是" is actually 2+4, *NOT* 4+4. If you're not aware of these words, it can really
mess with your head and make you think you're hearing things!!! Getting those squared away will
really help you trust your ears again.

加油！










Ge-lin -

Language CDs and such will really raise a third tones, almost sounding like a second; but in
reality, I would say don't worry about raising it yourself... Say it with a deeper voice. For a
fourth, put more power into it, probably the fastest changing tone.
For a second tone, for now you can practice extending it much more dramatic than you need to, and
as you get used to it more you can cool it down a bit.

I have found that when first working on my tones, I would move my hand to go along along with my
tones, and it seemed to help (that way you don't ignore them)










againstwind -



Quote:

For the second tone what I've been doing is very slightly lowering my voice at the beginning and
raising it, but I think the problem I'm having is I'm not going high enough.

So, you have probably been aware of the problem, which actually confuses many learners. I guess it
is possible that you raised the tone position when you start the 2nd tone, then it would be hard
for you to go higher.

Try to practise pronouncing words below precisely:
快来 快回 快球 快摇
冒头 冒牌 冒名
少年 亵渎

(They are 4th-2nd-tone words)

If you can pronounce both two characters correctly, cut the former and keep the latter tone, then
you are supposed to get what you want.










Hero Doug -

againstwind >> I've attached a quick sample. I noticed a bit of a goof when saying (na1).

Pronunciation lesson one they aren't using full words just yet, but sounds such as fa, la, ma, na,
ha, sa.

character >> I'll take a look at the resource you posted. I only have time for a reply right now.

<<恒心>> >> If by tone Sandhi you mean going from one tone to another that isn't the problem.
I'm just focusing on the individual tones so far.

In the next lesson they introduce combined tones. I noticed that certain combinations change how
the tone is changed. I'll hopefully be able to pull the advice I get from here and apply it to the
future lessons.

Ge-lin >> I've noticed that when Chinese is taught everyone always seems to exaggerate their
pronunciation, which I actually hate because that's not how they actually speak. But I suppose
you're right in saying it'll naturally relax itself later.










Koneko -

Pretty good! Keep it up!

I think there's slight vocal prolongation but it's not a big issue, maybe you were trying to
emphasise the syllables.

K.










againstwind -

Well done!

1st and 4th tones sounds accurate, no problem. And your 2nd tones are quite good and better than
3rd, except ha2. Just try it again.

Ok, there is a little advice for your 3rd tone. The problem (excuse me) is that your 3rd tone IS
NOT LOW ENOUGH. But don't worry. Because of general teaching way, learners are usually taught an
exaggerated 3rd tone, marked as 214, lowering firstly and then raising. It will be difficult.
Therefore, learners are likely to pay more attention to raising instead of lowering and to
pronounce a tone which is like 2nd tone. This also happened to you. It's gratifying, however,
you've been aware of it, 'not bothering to raise it at the end'. So lower as posible as you can.
While practise comined syllables, as you said, it would raise naturally when finished.

As for na1, I heard. Yours was a little similar to la1. Have another try.

In a word, you did a good job.










Hero Doug -

Koneko >> Yeah maybe it is a bit prolonged. Since the person recording it had to make it very
clear I'm sure they said it slower then usual. I'm sure the speed will pick up as I get better
with it.

againstwind >> I'll make sure to go lower, see if it I can improve it.

Thanks for the feedback guys/ladies. I know that listening for tones isn't exactly like listening
for words so my mistakes may also lie a bit with the person I was doing the test with.

After I practise it a bit more I'll re-post and see how accurate I can get it.












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