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djwebb2004 -

I am afraid my Chinese learning suffers from intermittent crises. I am starting to think I will
never speak/understand/read/write Chinese totally fluently; maybe I will never get to be a
Dashan-equivalent. The more I learn, the further the ultimate goal recedes from me, and yet I have
met many foreigners who spoke absolutely perfect English, so why shouldn't I aim to totally master
Chinese? Am I setting the goal too high? Is it really possible for an English person to totally
master Chinese? Have other people here had crises of confidence in their ultimate language goals?



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calibre2001 -

All of us would ultimately want to be fluent in Chinese, probably than native Chinese speakers
themselves! Alas, stumbling upon such learning blocks is a fact of life. Such is the way of life.
But truth is, these realisations will actually help form our learning. It is a period where your
knowledge consolidates and empowers you subconsciously like a metamorphosis.

I would breakdown my ultimate goals into small realistic goals - stage 1: can i understand what
that family is talking among themselves , stage 2: can i udnerstand 100% of that Winter Sonata
dubbed in Mandarin, something like that..

Remember , never give up and always enjoy it! Makes it alot less painful.










bjfall -



Quote:

I would breakdown my ultimate goals into small realistic goals - stage 1: can i understand what
that family is talking among themselves , stage 2: can i udnerstand 100% of that Winter Sonata
dubbed in Mandarin, something like that..

Remember , never give up and always enjoy it! Makes it alot less painful.

Thanks for the encouragement! Lately, I've been feeling the same way as djwebb2004. I learned
Chinese in a proper language university for a year and was happy with the level I reached. Now I'm
working and feel that since I stopped going to school, my level has plateauted. I try to study on
my own, but with my long work hours, I'm not consistent.

According to sinosplice.com, I'm in the intermediate stage and to make it to the advanced stage, I
need

Quote:

a lot of hard work and self-criticism ... as long as prolonged, intense exposure to Chinese.
Everyday exposure is not enough.

Is anybody out there in (or was in) a similar position? What advice can you give? Thanks!










wushijiao -



Quote:

Have other people here had crises of confidence in their ultimate language goals?

Yes.



Quote:

The more I learn, the further the ultimate goal recedes from me, and yet I have met many
foreigners who spoke absolutely perfect English, so why shouldn't I aim to totally master Chinese?

I have very similar feelings. I've been trying to figure out the next steps that I'll need to
improve my Chinese.

I think one thing to keep in mind is that Europeans who speak great English: A) speak languages
related to English B) have been exposed to English-speaking media for decades C) have had formal
schooling in English for many years (while most Chinese learners start much later in life, around
18 usually).



Quote:

Is it really possible for an English person to totally master Chinese?

That's a good question. I hope that it is possible, but it will just take a longer time frame than
I had originally thought.










HashiriKata -



Quote:


Originally Posted by wushijiao

I hope that it is possible, but it will just take a longer time frame than I had originally
thought.


I think it's possible,even for English speaker. Time is one factor but dedication is even more
important (= a conscious effort to "be at it" at all time, and not just "be there"). Such
dedication can be so freaky that the vast majority of learners end up questioning themselves
whether it is worth it.
(I was going to list "opportunity" as another requirement but the dedication I mentioned above
would ensure the existence of "opportunity".)










carlo -



Quote:

Such dedication can be so freaky that the vast majority of learners end up questioning themselves
whether it is worth it.

Absolutely, I've asked this question many times. I think this is a very common experience among
learners of all languages.

IMHO you need at least 10 years of 'freaky dedication' and daily experience of the language to get
to a level where you can more or less think of yourself as 'near-native'. It may even take longer
for languages as unrelated as English and Chinese. And even then it's like the saying
行百里者半九十, whenever you think you've come 90% of the way something happens that
reminds you that you're still stuck in the middle.










somedude -

You can't be totally fluent in both languages in my opinion. Just think about all the little
things in english that foreigners dont pick up on until many many years of living in an english
speaking society.










wannabeafreak -



Quote:

You can't be totally fluent in both languages in my opinion. Just think about all the little
things in english that foreigners dont pick up on until many many years of living in an english
speaking society.

Thats because they live in communties with their own people occupying every house and shop. Their
English contact is minimal.










wrbt -

Hey spy novels there is often some master CIA operative or assasin who is only 32 years old but
can speak five languages fluently without accent so he can pass as a native of various places.

If they can master that while also training for guns, explosives, lock picking, martial arts,
racecar driving, fighter jet and helicopter piloting, generally sneaking around quietly, and (of
course) computer hacking skills... how hard can it be to be fluent in two languages?










calibre2001 -

Can we get straight the definition of fluent? I get the impression that being fluent in Chinese
here entails being vocally indistinguishable from a native Chinese speaker regardless of
ethnic/country origins. Whilst that is to some extent true, I think there's a cultural aspect too
i.e. having and possibly embracing the mindset of native Chinese is also a requirement. Have we
overlooked this?












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